View Full Version : Latest AMR or RURAL/METRO closures???

05-11-2000, 10:27 AM
Does anyone have any information on service closures by these companies? Try to compile a list.

05-13-2000, 11:25 AM
I was about to ask the same question...I heard that R/M was out of all but 2 communities in TX, but I haven't had that confirmed. Of course, their website only contains information that is supposed to make you think that they are the "stuff"...they won't print any bad stuff. I looked at a couple of their TX websites to see if they might be down, but they were still up...I'll be watching this post...

My opinions do not necessarily reflect the agencies that I work for....

05-28-2000, 08:49 PM
Ok Here's your inside scoop. Laidlaw, the parent corperation of AMR and Rural Metro is in default to its stock holders. This will have some bearing on both subsidiaries but is not expected to cause closure of either company. Rural Metro and AMR have no financial liability within Laidlaw.

05-31-2000, 01:46 AM
Here in Winston-Salem, AMR has just decided to pull out of Forsyth County, leaving NuCare as our last major private company in operation. In our county, Forsyth EMS pretty much runs the show. From what I understand, we used to rotate, now central dispatch uses a tier system, AMR being 3rd.

05-31-2000, 09:25 PM
FYI Rural Meto has nothing to do with Laidlaw or AMR, and Rural Metro is not in default to stock holders..yet. I would know since I'm one of those poor souls that was part of an employee stock purchase plan..and lost a few bucks..ha!!! Anyway, RM is reorganizing, new business plan, dumping non-profitable operations that can not be turned around. Hoping for the best but, planning for the worst is my motto!

[This message has been edited by ctparsons (edited May 31, 2000).]

05-31-2000, 09:39 PM
Keep an eye on the Lincoln Fire vs. Rural/Metro situation in Lincoln, NE. June 26th...Independence Day.

The opinions expressed above are my own and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer or other professional organizations to which I belong.

06-01-2000, 12:16 AM
Funny I thought Laidlaw was the Parent Company of both AMR & RM. Guess the guy at corperate lied. . . AGAIN! Suprise suprise.

06-01-2000, 08:28 AM
Just FYI,
Yesterday the San Diego AMR web site News link stated that the sale of AMR was down to two 'qualified' buyers, and that they would be out to see San Diego in June. The sale may come quickly after that. Interestingly, a few hours after that was up on the web site is was quickly removed! Hmmm. Anyone in San Diego, keep your eyes and ears open.

06-01-2000, 09:42 AM
Lincoln Firefighters....

I've been reading your posts on Firehouse and watching the 10/11 news. I live across the border down here in Kansas, and I work full time as a Lieutenant with the Ft Riley Fire Department.

I just wanted to tell you guys to keep fighting. I don't know much about R/M but I do know AMR. If it makes you guys feel any better, a lot of citizens here in northern KS go to Lincoln hospitals for higher levels of care not provided here. Most of them know I'm a firefighter, and they always comment about the fire/paramedics who are working in the hospital and how professional and courteous they were. One of our local EMT's parents live in Lincoln, and they have had to use 911 a few times. They always have positive comments to say about Lincoln's firefighter/paramedics. They don't say too much about the ambulance, except that it takes so long for them to get there.

Good luck to all of you

Bob Snyder
06-01-2000, 11:20 AM
AMR has chosen not to pursue renewal of its contract with the City of Reading, PA on the grounds that it does not find this service to be profitable (read: AMR hasn't been able to capture its planned share of the non-emergency transport business from the combination and volunteer squads in the surrounding county and the other private ambulance services in the city). The current front-running plan is for the Fire Bureau to take over ambulance service (which it divested itself of nearly 15 years ago) to avoid such problems in the future.

06-02-2000, 10:17 PM
Thanks FedFire, for your kind comments. We do the best we can. Hopefully at the end of the month, we'll know if we can do more. Keep in touch....

Stay safe, everyone...

06-03-2000, 09:18 PM
I have no experience with R/M, we have AMR way over here in Washington State. There are rumors floating around that AMR is planning to pull out of Spokane. I doubt they will. Spokane City Fire Department is researching getting into transporting, and my department just looked at some ambulances (just in case). I do know that Colorado Springs, CO is done with AMR as soon as their current contract is up. Their city fire department will be taking over transporting. It should be interesting to see what happens.
Take care,
tigger http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/wink.gif

Pull to the Right for Sirens & Lights! ;)

06-06-2000, 11:08 PM
Scuttlebutt is raging around the office about who's gonna buy the NE region of AMR. Anyone out their got a spare 60 mil floating around??

Alex C.

06-08-2000, 09:29 PM
AMR shut down all operations in Illinois effective this past Monday morning. This was done without notifying employees at all-they came to work to find locked doors. Rural Metro was there in place. And no- R/M is not part of Laidlaw


06-15-2000, 04:01 PM
From my understanding, R/M put in a bid to buy AMR, along with another company. Both offers fell through due to the fact that neither company could get fiancing. If Amr is not sold by this Aug., Laidlaw may do one of two things,1. just close AMR down and take as a tax writeoff or,2. Start Closing even more stations.
Laidlaw owns a 44% interest in saftyKleen which has just filed for chap.11 protection. They are over 1 Billion dollars in dept, and Laidlaw is responcible for a majority of that. Safty Kleen has been taken off of the stock market, and the last I read Laidlaw stock was worth about 51cents a share. I think that Laidlaw is in just as much trouble as is AMR. I don't really see how much longer Laidlaw will hold on to AMR. If your ship has a hole in it, you can only get so much water out of it with a bucket before it goes under. This is AMR, a sinking Ship.

06-15-2000, 04:41 PM
In regards to the divestiture of AMR by Laidlaw. Since they did that last fall, is there a legal requirement that AMR must be sold off within a year? Anyone know? AMR here is highly profitable, but its also in the middle of nowhere. We are wondering what will happen if noone buys?? Any legal or financial guru's here know??

06-15-2000, 07:22 PM
Just to correct myself, Laidlaw stock is at 51 cents a share on the Canadian Stock Exchange. Laidlaw is at 31 cents a share on the NYSE. As of 6-13-00. Just wanted to get my quotes correct.

06-30-2000, 02:03 AM
To my knowledge,Rural/Metro is losing two fire contracts here locally after the terms of the contracts is up. In addition they recently closed three EMS bases without notifing employees until the day of closure.

06-30-2000, 07:35 AM
Rural/Metro just lost their bid to continue service in Lincoln, NE. Paramedic service will be assumed by the City Fire Department as of January 1, 2001. I wouldn't call it a closure, more like a removal.....

Was a contentious debate without anyone clearly taking the high ground. Actually, there's a group trying to petition the issue to get the decision reversed (Council approved with a 4-3 vote).

Frank Billington, #11
Town of Superior Fire Online (http://superior.isonfire.com)

07-06-2000, 06:17 PM
Just to confirm...the City Council of Lincoln, NE voted "Intent" (meaning it hasn't yet become an Ordinance, but will) 4-3 to give the Emergency Ambulance Transport Service to the Lincoln Fire Department. They have not yet decided on Nonemergency service...LFD has a proposal to include AMR as their "Private Partner," who will do the Nonemergency transport and serve as a backup. Right now, we're hearing a bunch of sob stories about RM employees losing their jobs, etc...(the local paper does NOT like the Fire Department). Many RM employees are rumored to have already found jobs elsewhere, although this hasn't been confirmed. Those sobbing shouldn't blame LFD...we attempted to negotiate a deal with RM which would allow them to stay in town and keep the transport service, but would allow Fire Department Medics more of a Leadership Role on Medical calls (right now, after an LFD medic initiates treatment, a RM medic comes in, takes, over, and is in TOTAL charge). Unfortunately for them, their Regional Manager didn't feel that it was financially prudent for them, hence LFD going "all the way." Although I only speak for myself and not for the other organizations that I represent or belong to, I feel excited to be able to provide faster, more seamless care to the citizens of Lincoln.

Oh yes...a caveat...one of the radiologists, who is a member of the County Medical Society, fought hard against LFD...she said that there was absolutely NO REASON to have ALS arrive in less than four minutes and absolutely NO REASON for any faster ambulance response time than 8 minutes. LFD provides first response ALS in with an average response time of 3.23 minutes, and proposes ambulance arrival in 6 minutes or less. Do Docs lose common sense when they go to Med School? Just a question.

07-14-2000, 07:53 AM
Ok, R/M and are not owned by Laidlaw. AMR and EMCARE is. As an ex-AMR employee( by choice), here is what is goin on the last i have heard. All of San Diegos AMR management walked out and went over to R/M in Sept, 1999.Now the EMT's and Medics are the management-Self appointed as well...hummm.
In September 1999 Laidlaw announced that it will try and sell all parent companies of medial transportaton. The deadline for the sale or AMR companies is way past due. No one wants to buy these AMR companies due to the fact they are expensive and most contracts will expire this year(San Diego is one these companies, as well as most of the west coast AMR Facilities). Leaveing the buyer to an unknown future of its purchase. It is way to easy to just let AMR close its doors and bid for the contracts of service. laidlaw is aware of this and will wait for contracts to come to a close prior to closing its doors. This will save them money from fines from contracted facilities, cities, and unions. The AMR companies are worth a hell lot more in pieces than in separate companies.
I do think we will see AMR/laidlaw agian, They cant go to far in bus transpotation. it seems that they will keep CMR(Canadian medical response). so who knows, ladlaw just may reenter the medical transportaton business at a much later date.
I do belive that laidlaw would have kept AMR together if we would have just left the Medtrans managers in power. AMR managers and ceo's have wedges up their butts and wasted alot of time and money. Shortly after laidlaw bought AMR and fired its Medtrans people and gave AMR the power, everything went down hill. Contracts where lost due ****y management. Then AMR top ceo's hired headhunters to run individual companies into the ground on purpose.

I am not to sure what R/M is up to these days. Hopefully they will go under in the future but they will remain in Arizona for some time till cities will figure out that they can actually make money in the medical transportation business.

Here is the press release to investors:

Laidlaw to focus on bus passenger transportation; Exit U.S. healthcare industry through divestiture of American Medical Response and EmCare

Burlington, Ontario, Sept. 13, 1999

Laidlaw Inc. (NYSE:LDW; TSE and ME:LDM) has announced it plans to focus on its highly successful bus passenger transportation businesses and divest its U.S. healthcare operations. As well, the company plans to actively seek a buyer for its 44% common equity interest in Safety-Kleen Corp. (NYSE:SK), the Columbia, South Carolina-based industrial services provider.

Laidlaw is the largest bus company in North America and has significant opportunities for further growth. With the company's current stock price providing little or no recognition of the substantial underlying value of its healthcare businesses, the company believes shareholder value will be better served by proactively taking steps to realize value for those businesses and dedicating the company's resources to enhancing its intercity, school and municipal bus operations.

Laidlaw's healthcare operations consist of American Medical Response and EmCare. American Medical Response is the largest provider of emergency and non-emergency ambulance services in the U.S. with estimated fiscal 1999 revenue of $1 billion. EmCare is a leading U.S. provider of physician practice management services in hospital emergency departments with estimated fiscal 1999 revenue of $475 million.

As a result of this changed strategy, effective with the reporting of its fiscal year ended August 31, 1999, the company will reflect results from its ambulance and emergency department management services as discontinued operations held for divestiture. Sales of the healthcare businesses and the interest in Safety-Kleen are expected to take place over the next six to twelve months and realize net proceeds in excess of $2 billion. These funds will be used to substantially reduce the company's debt and support the growth of Laidlaw's core bus transportation businesses. The company will provide for an anticipated book loss on the sale of its healthcare businesses of approximately $1 billion ($3.03 per share) at its 1999 fiscal year end. The gain to be achieved in the sale of its interest in Safety-Kleen will be recorded at the time such sale occurs. Laidlaw has engaged Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc. to assist the company in these divestitures.

Commenting on the new strategy, Laidlaw's president & CEO, James R. Bullock, said,

"Obviously, the past year in the U.S. healthcare industry has been extremely difficult for all participants, including Laidlaw. Although the restructuring of American Medical Response, which began in early spring, is taking hold and will deliver improving results, we do not believe AMR and EmCare have been or will be attributed appropriate value as part of Laidlaw's business portfolio."

"Selling these assets will unlock value not presently reflected in our share price, dramatically improve our balance sheet and provide us with the liquidity for expansion opportunities in our bus businesses. The Laidlaw story will be greatly simplified as we focus on expanding our position as North America's largest provider of specialty bus services."

Laidlaw is North America's largest provider of school busing, intercity and municipal transit, patient transportation and emergency department management services.

This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve a number of risks and uncertainties. Among the important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those indicated by such forward-looking statements are competitive pressures, changes in pricing policies, business conditions in the marketplace, general economic conditions and the risk factors detailed from time to time in the company's periodic reports and registration statements filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

For further information: 800-563-6072, Laidlaw Inc.

J.R. Bullock,
President and CEO
ext. 201

T.A.G. Watson,
Vice President, Communications
ext. 309

[This message has been edited by Roid_Rage (edited July 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Roid_Rage (edited July 14, 2000).]

07-14-2000, 01:57 PM
He is my opinion......get rid of the SCABS and give it back to the fire service.......justifies more jobs........

The opinions and views expressed herin are solely mine and not on the behalf of the organization I belong to.

07-15-2000, 07:11 AM
Okay- Hold the phone a second. I can see your point in an area that had Fire and EMS at one time under the same roof, but lost EMS to a Private, but some areas have never had their own EMS and have no desire to, so Private Service makes sense, as it does in my area-about 45 minutes north of you in S. Beloit. If memory serves me right-you have it all under one roof-and it works for you. It will not work for us up here however-at least not at this time. 911 EMS calls are handled by the Private company that I work for, and I am also with our Fire Department. We work and play well together and the only problems we have ever encountered working together have been when AMR was here-We ran AMR out of town and there have been no problems since. Private EMS does work in some areas. It may go to the FD in the future-that remains to be seen. But not all Privates are automatically scabs-nobody's job was lost to Private EMS here.

In an unrelated note-it was reported yesterday that Laidlaw/AMR's losses for the quarter have doubled over the last quarter. There is more info at www.theabaris.com/emsnews (http://www.theabaris.com/emsnews)

Take it easy,
Drive it like you stole it


07-17-2000, 11:40 AM
In regards to AMR, Laidlaw has taken a cut in AMR's worth by about 314 million dollars.
This is to adjust for market conditions and due to the new fee schedual that is going into effect next year.
Even with these cuts bringing AMR under 1 billion dollars, This will be a very high risk purchase.
I think that with all that is going on in the ems market today, you will find more fire based ems comming into play. My county is served by AMR (and only AMR). The adjoining city of Monroe is going transport on Sept.1 of this year. Already AMR wants to redo the contract to cut 1 of the 4 ambulances that it has for this whole county. I think that my dept. will be joing Monroe in the next couple of years and do the transporting ourselves.
AMR is soon to tumble.

07-17-2000, 07:45 PM
There you go fyresq50, I'm in the same spot you are. Crew Chief with a comm. service as well as FF. and we work GREAT together. I'm getting pretty sick of this scab **it, lets remember why FDs started doing EMS in the first place SBFire333,as you said to justify JOBs and get a call volume. All I hear is you career guys complaining about volys or comm. EMS services what the hell do you want? If all the vollys quit who would respond? If there were no comm. EMS do you think you could handle the load? NO, of course not! Don't you think that most vollys out there would love a career job? But the fact is until this nation decides the Fire Service is just as important as guys driving around in patrol cars looking for out of date license plates, THINGS WON'T CHANGE! Remember who the minority is here over 80% of this country is covered by Volunteer Dept.s Unless your in Chicago,NY,LA,Metro Dade or the like wer're here to care for your FAMILY.
Nothing personal against P.D.s, career Houses or anyone individual, just venting.
Something must have struck a bone.

Stay safe & take care of each other!!!

Opinions expressed are mine and may not be those of my Dept.s

[This message has been edited by JMP17 (edited July 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by JMP17 (edited July 17, 2000).]

07-24-2000, 11:17 AM
After reading these posts I have come up with a conclusion. I think the whole private vs public argument is quickly going away since it looks like the privates are shutting the doors everywhere. I never worked for a private nor do I have a desire to but it seems that a company transporting sick patients for profit would tend to skimp on costs to increase its profit margins.

07-25-2000, 02:31 PM
DOO600 lets get it straight, yes the big ones are having problems and closing alot of doors but there are alot of very good comm. services out there. I'm a Crew Chief with one we have 27 ambulances that handle routine transfers as well as E-911 for the city, mutual aid and R-5 intercept to 14 surounding communities. Our equipment is the best, our rigs arekept in excellent condition and are replaced at 200,000 miles even though they still look and run like new. We care for our Pt.s like they were our own family. You can't lump all these services into one, as I have said before the fire service would never handle EMS without some kind of comm. service. Nothing against the F.D. cause I'm a FF. also!
Lets all work together to care for our people.
Stay safe & take are of each other!!!!

07-25-2000, 10:59 PM
Private services do just fine as long as the emphasis is put on service. I work for the largest and oldest private in Wisconsin, as well as for my fire department, and we work great together. As long as you remember that the patient is first-excellent care happens regardless of if you are a volly, municipal or private service EMS. It is not about where the check goes come billing time-it is about what kind of care the patient recieves. If you give terrible service and care-you can only expect to be run out of town.


07-26-2000, 11:01 AM
You got that right, Brother!!
Stay safe & Take care!!!

08-26-2000, 11:23 PM
I can't believe there are no more AMR/ R/M closures to report on. AMR is supposed to be done by the end of the month according to their agreement with the SEC reference the divestiture announcement last September.



08-26-2000, 11:24 PM
I can't believe there are no more AMR/ R/M closures to report on. AMR is supposed to be done by the end of the month according to their agreement with the SEC reference the divestiture announcement last September.



08-28-2000, 07:07 PM
All Rural Metro operations in Texas that were not under contract were shut down in Texas back in June.

Rural Metro is currently operating in only 2 major communities in North Texas. They are Ft. Worth and Arlington. Rural Metro has indicated that when these contracts expire they will not be renewing their agreements. No non-emergency services are being offered.

The City of Ft. Worth is rumored to be looking at a new third city service form of E.M.S. Rural Metro is suffering tremendous losses in all major 911 markets. Staffing levels are drastically reduced due to corporate earnings being so low.

Penalty's are being assessed but the company show's no signs of comming in compliance with its current contracts.

Rural Metro attributes its Texas problems to low medicare/caid re-imbusement rates. All Texas R/M billings were placed on dispute lists by the company responsible for authorizing payment. The company would have to go through the payment dispute process on all bills submitted and it would take up to nine months to collect on each bill.

If you have any question E-mail Me.

09-20-2000, 11:45 AM
Has any body heard anything on AMR? They already passed the divestiture date. Is Laidlaw going to sell or close them up?

09-24-2000, 11:47 AM
Last I heard through the grapevine was that $500 Million was offered by a group of R/M and AMR former executives. Not accepted of course, but now I think AMR/Laidlaw is waiting for a final statement about the new Medicare reimbursement rates. I thought the whole thing was out, with state modifiers, etc., but not final. As for our little area, it's apparently up for sale separate from the rest. We have a high profit monopoly here. We'll see what happens. Anyone hear if Denver ops have died yet??

09-27-2000, 06:45 AM
As of yesterday, Laidlaw announced that AMR will be sold or dissolved by the end of the first quarter of 2001. They have gone from serving 37 states to 33 in less than a year, and their stock through the parent company, has dropped from $7.50 per share to $0.31 per share in less than a year. They consider AMR to be a discontinued healthcare service, and at this time are only completing their contracts that currently exist.

09-28-2000, 12:26 PM
Wow, I've heard the 'selling' line for over a year, but DISSOLVED?? Could you post a link to that infomation?

09-28-2000, 04:29 PM
We have exclusive certificate of need for all 911 calls in the county. 25 ALS transport riggs. Non emergency is done by private firms not AMR or RM. We recently bid on a contract with a local hospital that does cardiac caths, by passes,ect and neo-natal They provide an RN, the unit and equipment. We provide an EMT and Paramedic who get special training and are on call with a pager. Must be at the Hospital within 30 minutes for a transport. The private company that had the contract tried to get a court injunction against us but lost. The Emt's & Paramedics get time and one half plus one hour for eight hours on pager if not needed. We are not making a profit it just keeps our folks sharper and helps with Hospital relations and gives em some extra money. We also have off duty Paramedic working on trama choppers. I believe AMR has a large contract in Saint Petersburg Sun Star Ambulance. JHA

11-12-2000, 10:02 PM
November 7, 2000...election night...Rural-Metro, under the guise of "Supporters of Ambulance Value and Excellence (SAVE)," a product of former republican city council members and filthy rich developers who hate the firefighter's union, attempted to pass a City Charter Constitutional Amendment in Lincoln, NE that would overturn the June city council decision to give 911 EMS transport to the Lincoln Fire Department. The charter amendment, if it passed, basically said that the ambulance service in Lincoln, NE could never be a public (fire dept) service. The power for selecting the ambulance service would basically be placed in the hands of five hand-picked (deck stacked to be anti-FD) officials. THE CHARTER AMENDMENT FAILED. THE LINCOLN FIRE DEPARTMENT WILL PROVIDE 911 ALS TRANSPORT SERVICE AS OF JANUARY 1, 2001. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11-23-2000, 10:00 AM
Why in the world would members of a professional department go into a bar and start a fight with the Rural-Metro people?

I realize that there are always a few bad apples-but this kind of activity really makes the general population wonder if the decision to give EMS to the Fire Department was such a good idea after all. I can only base my opinion on the articles I have read, but come on-this is such a black eye for the department. Now there is going to be all kinds of doubt from the public, and the city council, and you have this new problem with the Ambulance bidding controversy.

Well-now other municipalities that were looking at Fire Department taking EMS from the privates are going to think twice about it. Lincoln has given our Fire Departments a black eye just because of the actions of a few of its people, and it is National News.

On behalf of those departments that will not see EMS come back to them because of this-Thanks Lincoln. A lot of hard work for nothing. One can only hope that the council members nationwide will see this as an isolated incident.

11-25-2000, 02:54 PM
Fireresq 50.

I see you are not from Lincoln OR Nebraska so what do you know of the situation there? Having been a former resident and RECIPIENT of the Lincoln area EMS system, I am happy for the fire department's new role in EMS. With relatives of friends still living in the area, and their advanced age, they call EMS periodically. They have always commented on how nice, proficient, and courteous the firefighters were. They do not give this same comment to the private provider. Seems they were more concerned wether Medicare would cover the run,and if they had supplemetal insurance. Or perhaps the 20 minute wait for an ambulance might have soured them. Even my dad, who has no idea of what fire or EMS is all about, comments on the care he received while in the hospital from the FIREFIGHTERS who were working there to maintain skills.

I work part time for a private provider. They treat their employess terribly. There seemed to be a lot of dissatisfaction there, but the street medics pressed on. The driving force behind the company is profit. Thankfully, I will be working for a government 3rd service soon. I have met some high speed, low drag paramedics and EMTs at the private company, and enjoyed working with them. I have also met some that I wouldn't let put the plastic head back on a GI Joe doll. But this is not about the people. I'm sure Rural Metro has some outstanding employees and I hope they're able to re locate or find something local. Lincoln firefighters fought for something they cared about. I wish them the best of luck.

11-25-2000, 10:22 PM
You are correct, but by the same token-what does this have to do with Firefighters starting a bar brawl with R/M employees after the Fire Department won the Service back? I am an EMT for a private and a firefighter for the city here, so don't think I am slamming either for the level of service. Like I said before-there are always going to be a few bad apples-regardless of where you are. The service we give here through the private EMS company (all 911-no transfers) is always patient based, regardless of their checkbook or medicare. We are very highly respected by all of our peers-private or volunteer or municipal- and I am proud of the work I do. Point blank - the Lincoln Firefighters that started that barfight are a slap in the face to an otherwise professional fire department-regardless of where, and if the shoe were on the other foot, and it were the R/M EMT's that started the fight-then I would feel the same about them. There are good services and bad services out there, Private and Municipal. I happen to work for a very professional fire department as well as an extremely professional EMS service. I am very lucky in that aspect.


11-25-2000, 11:42 PM
I have been in Lincoln. I used to work there for Rural/Metro. I wasn't there for a long time, but I can tell you something...it was a dirty fight. Both sides have black eyes coming out of it and neither side is the winner. Part of the reason I left was the crazy competition that was driving this fight. The city set up the worst possible system it could have a few years ago and doomed it to fail in a vicious battle. The system rules set the two sides up for conflict by forcing the Fire and EMS to work in an environment that neither side wanted and work by rules that always left someone angry. The resulting war was an embarrassment to both departments with everyone writing up everyone and each side trying to get some city authority to push through a policy to hurt the other guy. ITS SAD! It had nothing at all to do with the true reason everyone was on the streets. The City Council, the mayor, the newspaper, the hospitals, and even the Doctors were all part of the politics. Each with their reasoning for why their guy was better.TRUTH:LFD wanted EMS to secure their future raises and positions and take the "king of the hill" title from their long time rival. R/M wanted to protect their jobs and keep LFD the "junior" partner that they could control. LFD did offer a compromise a while ago, but it was so outrageous that even the most disgruntled employee at R/M did not support it. Will LFD do a better job than R/M? No. In the end, after all of the fighting and name calling and BS...it will probably be just the same. They will have more trucks,but they will lose some very experienced medics forced out by the transition. So, its a trade off. I am not pro private or pro fire. All I know is that people I know will lose their jobs and others will be forced to move away. For what? So, someone can pay back a campaign promise? So, they can get a bigger raise next time? So, that they can give a drug without asking for permission? What a waste. The firefighter at the bar that got into the fight with the R/M employees USED to be a R/M employee. How's that for friendship and professional respect. That fight sums up the whole damned mess and why I am glad that I am out and why I am sorry for everyone still there. This whole forum is part of the problem. Public or Private? WHO CARES! GET THE JOB DONE AND SHUT UP. Phoenix and LA do wonderful jobs, But Washington DC and now FDNY have had nothing but problems. Richmond Ambulance Auth.(AMR) and MAST do well, but Medstar is struggling. Every area needs to find its own way sometimes private, sometimes public. LFD has to take over under a cloud that most of the employees don't deserve because they are dedicated, quality people. R/M has lost an operation that has been providing EMS to Lincoln since EMS started (as eastern amb. before R/M). WOW! Sure sounds like it was worth it to me.

12-05-2000, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by lohof:
Does anyone have any information on service closures by these companies? Try to compile a list.
If you compile a list please e-mail it to me. Thanks

[This message has been edited by bigdaddyfire (edited 12-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by bigdaddyfire (edited 12-14-2000).]

12-05-2000, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Bob Snyder:
AMR has chosen not to pursue renewal of its contract with the City of Reading, PA on the grounds that it does not find this service to be profitable (read: AMR hasn't been able to capture its planned share of the non-emergency transport business from the combination and volunteer squads in the surrounding county and the other private ambulance services in the city). The current front-running plan is for the Fire Bureau to take over ambulance service (which it divested itself of nearly 15 years ago) to avoid such problems in the future.
Could you e-mail me any articles from the local news papers talking about this. I Work for a hospital based EMS that the hosp is giving back EMS to the county. The county commissioners are entertaining the idea of going private. ALL of the Medics are trying to prevent this. Your local situation may nip it in the bud, if we can show proof that this kind of thing really happens. THANKS



[This message has been edited by bigdaddyfire (edited 12-14-2000).]

12-07-2000, 04:08 PM
I have been reading this post with interest. As a former fed firefighter in San
Diego and city fire in Albuquerque, and now a firefighter paramedic in the mid west (for a city). I have seen alot of private amb and this is just my never to be humble opinion.

If you want to be taken advantage of go private! If you want to be a slave to the ER and draw blood, wipe butts, take patients to x-ray or what ever else the hospitial wants to use you for, go ahead. If you want to not be paid for your time (sleep time after a certain hour) go private.

If you want to be paid the same every hour you are at work, work 1 on and 2 off, have better pay and benifits (medical and dental and pension) go public. If you get sick of the ambulance (like I did after 7 yrs) you can go to a truck ( I now drive and act lt.)

In the three states I have worked I never saw 1 person leave the fire dept for a private ambulance service, but I sure as hell have seen private amb. people bail to fire departments like thair private company was on fire. That alone tells all. Also their is very low turn over in the FD. people retire from there. But the private services have more turnover then you can shake a stick at. That again says it all.

The private amb. service you can have. And by the way....between the two I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that fire does a much better job.

I told you it was never to be humble!

12-16-2000, 07:38 AM
Being a former AMR employee, I have a few comments. First, AMR's goal is to provide patient TRANSPORT! They don't want 911, because it is not profitable. The boring, routine transports are where they would like to focus their energy. 911 contracts are signed, because municiple departments are not able to meet the needs of the community.
Second, private ambulances are not "scabs". They are providing a needed serivce. If the they did not exist, then who would be taking your mother, to and from the nursing home? Without the support of "privates", most municiple departments would overloaded with "BS" runs.
Please, don't misunderstand me. Is AMR the greatest company in the world? ha ha Of course not, but they do provide a service that EVERY community needs...Medical Transport.

12-24-2000, 11:25 PM
SWR88, It is pretty obvious that you saw how screwed-up the EMS System was here in Lincoln, and that' why you left. Your remarks about LFD wanting to secure future jobs and take jobs away from our "long-time" rival R/M is way off base. First and foremost, our goal has been patient care and teamwork. Your remarks place you in the "mercenary" category. You were unwilling to be a team player and spend any time in a system to make it work. I would invite you to come back to Lincoln in five years and see how much the System has improved. FACT: Several years ago, it was found that RM (then Eastern Ambulance) wasn't making enough money to staff their ambulances with three personnel (a B, an I, and a P). Articles in the Paper talked about how other cities comparable in size to Lincoln "subsidized" the private ambulance provider in town to keep them afloat. So, Eastern was "subsidized" by the City of Lincoln in the form of Paramedics on every Engine Co. Then, RM only had to staff their ambulances with two people, and they had the added advantage of having prompt ALS care provided to the citizens. Makes sense to me. This operation could have probably lasted indefinitely...many paramedics on the FD were happy to provide ALS care on the critical calls when they were needed, and let RM rake in the dough (which is what they really wanted)...RM was saving tons of money by staffing rigs with two, in addition to making tons of money by charging for the services of a Paramedic provided by the City.

Secondly, our goal was quality patient care. The smoke and mirrors provided by RM was ludicrous. The QA people decided that a good paramedic was one that got a lot of tubes and IV sticks (to hell with the thinking medics). The QA people decide that the only people capable of leading a medical call are RM folks. So, I arrive first on the scene in my fire engine, tube a patient, and start an IV, and the RM medic gets credit for those skills. Total BS. These numbers were clouding everyone's thinking that we were incapable of doing the job...when you only put three ambulances on the street for a quarter million people, and they get credit for the skills provided by all the LFD Paramedics, their "fake" numbers will look better. It wouldn't have been so bad, but it just did not level the playing field.

In addition to this, we have LFD Firefighters who work with a very reputable Aeromedical Transport Service on their days off. They see more Trauma and Critical Medical Patients in a day than many people see all year. And when they come to work for LFD, they have to bow to the wishes of a punk kid Paramedic that's two months out of Medic school and doesn't even know BLS, let alone ALS.

A couple of weeks ago, units were dispatched to an injury accident with significant mechanism of injury. One of the first people to arrive was a local ER physician. He directed the LFD Paramedic (who arrived first) to immobilize the pt, give o2, start a line, etc. When the RM unit arrived, their lead medic began to bark orders to "take the collar off, they don't need it!!! You don't need to put the pt on a backboard, we'll walk him to the cot. He had to eat major crow when he saw the MD in the backseat directing pt care. His (the RM Medic) attitude summarizes the quality pt care provided by them in Lincoln. In fact, soon after we won the vote, RM Medics were disruptive in the care for critical patients (ie bumping LFD Medics trying to start IV's, arguing with family and attempting to argue with LFD staff) and not living by the mantra that they preached all summer long. Boo hoo. In fact, they aren't even restocking drugs in their ambulances anymore...sounds negligent to me.

Fact is, you can add RM to the "closure" list in Lincoln. I will be sure to post pictures of our new, pretty RED Ambulances.